Help upgrading SS

[Kirb]

I looking upgrading my 5 bay SS and was looking for help. What are your thoughts on in bay bill acceptors, Credit cards, tri foam guns, and air shamie. Also looking at closing in one bay and adding a pet wash. What options are working well and which are not.
Any advice would help.
Thanks,
Kirb

[Fatboy769]

Kirb, as far as credit cards, tri-foam guns, air shamie and pet wash, I can't say, since I do not have any of those. I installed in-bay bill acceptors 6 months ago and from the money that I have taken out and the customer feed back, I think it was a profitable investment. From what I have read here about credit cards, I believe it would be a good investment as well! What functions do you offer now?

[Foam1]

Yes to all.
We do all of these and they are a must.
Our locations that have these are growing and the ones we have not done yet are declining.They are the future in order to compete.

[Kirb]

Thanks for your reply. I currently have pre soak, foaming brush, soap, wax and rinse.

[Foam1]

If you put a dog wash in, you should have an attendant on site most of the day.
It only takes one customer to make a mess,and you don't know which one or when it will be.

[MEP001]

No tire cleaner or spot-free? Those are a prerequisite for any semi-modern car wash. If you're looking at all new equipment, go for all the bells and whistles. You could likely do without the in-bay dryers since most report low use, but tri-foam wax is inexpensive to install and operate. Our customers love it - about half of 'em use it. Credit card acceptance is a must nowadays, and bill acceptance is no longer a huge equipment cost add-on, not to mention the validators (specifically Mars) are very low maintenance.

[Kirb]

Thanks for the replies. I have tire cleaner but no spot free. I talked to local sales rep and he tried to talk me out of spot free(benefit did not out way cost), bill acceptance(theft), Tri-foam( little use),dryers( little use). He did say the credit cards a must.
What would you recomend for new meter boxes? Rotary or push button? What credit card system?

[Kirb]

What spot free and tri-foam would you recommend?
Thanks,
Kirb

[MEP001]

If your local sales rep thinks spot-free rinse is not a beneficial service to offer, he's not very bright. Yes, it's a costly addition, but as I said it's a must-have, and it'll pay for itself very quickly. Tri-foam will have a longer payoff, but it's worth having even in a lower income area. I've yet to see one that didn't get used significantly. Bill acceptors in a good, secure box are not a big target for breakins from what I've seen and heard, and you can expect an increase in your bottom line from the customers overpaying. The only thing I can agree with are in-bay dryers - only the nicest washes in the best of neighborhoods can claim success with them.

[Fatboy769]

Kirb, I think I would be looking for a new sales rep! Listen to MEP001, he knows what he's talking about! Do your self a favor and use a rotary switch, they are hard to beat for price and dependability.

[pitzerwm]

MEP, my TDS were on 40 so an RO unit wasn't needed, that might be the case here.

[Ben's Car Wash]

Kirb,

I recently rehabed my SS in the past 5 months. Do as MEP said. I added CC/bill aceptors in each bay and a triple foam gun. I already had a spot free & tire cleaner options on the old equipment.

Credit card are here to stay. Recent studines on "micro purchases" on CC show that BILLIONS are being spent for items like magizine s& coffee. Some CC in SS acount for 20-30% of sales report by forum members. My tunnel does 60% CC sales at over 1005 that of a cash sale. My SS is doing about 7-10% presently at almost 200% above average cash sale. CC in bays are a must.

In this industry, we don't have what we have in medicine; a standard of practice. But if we did for SS it would include all those items mentioned above.

[Kirb]

Thanks for all the great advice. I'm planning on taking it and going with spot free, tri foam, CC/bill acceptors. What equipment would you recommend? I do all the repairs and my wash but have never done an upgrade. What options can I install myself?

[Greg Pack]

Your salesman may or may not be correct on the spot free usage. I think it will depend on your water quality. I have met some people that claim they had 40ppm coming out of the tap. If that is the case I could see the advice given as reasonable. Do you Know what the tds is? Also, what are the demographics of the market you are serving?

[MEP001]

My SS is doing about 7-10% presently at almost 200% above average cash sale.
To point out once again, this number is a per cycle count and does not take into consideration the fact that many cash customers allow the timer to run out, then restart. Actual per-customer differences in cash vs. credit card expenditures is much, much lower.

[Ben's Car Wash]

Mep,

I understand what you are saying, however it would make little differance. I need a referance at some point. Yesterday my CC sales were over 20% of gross at the SS. I would still venture to say that CC sales out perform cash consistantly at a majority of washes by mre than 100%. I have no other way to determine "cycles" vs counted cars.

[Ben's Car Wash]

I would also point out that the min $ start up cash is $2 vs a min of $5 for credit. that alone is 150% and that the timer max is set at $12. Others have this set at $15-$20. I will say that today I was pleasently suprised to pull out a $20 bill from one of the bays validators! I'd take that everyday over a CC transaction!

And if the timer ran out after only $2 was inserted then another $2 was inserted, wouldn't that reduce the cash sales? How often does that happen? Less than 10%? I think the impact is minimal and does little to skew the results... but is a subject for study. How about I randomly do a manual count on how many people let the timer expire before inserting more $?

[MEP001]

And if the timer ran out after only $2 was inserted then another $2 was inserted, wouldn't that reduce the cash sales?
It reduces the average spent per cycle, but it doesn't reduce the overall cash sales.
How often does that happen? Less than 10%? I think the impact is minimal and does little to skew the results...
Without knowing for sure, why would you even post such a statistic? I know that I see a lot of people let the timer expire and restart it, usually on purpose but sometimes they can't get more cash out in time. Here are some numbers:

Let's say you average $3 per customer cash, $6 per customer for CC (200% more spent via CC over cash). Let's go with 1,000 customers, 20% of which are CC. That's 800 at $3 each paying cash. Now let's "skew" it your 10% and have 720 customers instead of cycles. That's $3.33 per customer, and you're already down to 180% more spent by CC customers than cash. That's not "little difference."

Please do your count, and kindly add a disclaimer that your 200% more spent via CC counts only timer cycles and not actual customers. Your information is incredibly misleading without it, and if a sales rep had reported such numbers to get me to buy a credit card system I'd have sued him over it.

[I.B. Washincars]

I'm in total agreement with MEP001. Many, many customers let the timer run out and restart it. I would say the majority do. I have seen somewhere on the web, probably here, that the average customer buys 2 1/2 cycles. I'm not going to do the math as MEP has, but that would give your #s no credibility and I would also want to sue a salesperson who used a tactic like that.

[Greg Pack]

Thanks for all the great advice. I'm planning on taking it and going with spot free, tri foam, CC/bill acceptors. What equipment would you recommend? I do all the repairs and my wash but have never done an upgrade. What options can I install myself?

If DIY, call Jim Gosnell at Etowah Valley Equipment in Etowah, NC. He can help you with this and probably save you a great deal of money.

[Ben's Car Wash]

I don't sell any equipment... so why should I add a disclaimer? I said that it's based on cycles, that should surfice. I also said I quess that it would be 10%, but without counting, I don't know for sure. Not a big deal. Saying that that "I believe" that most credit card companies state a 30% increase in sales for CC over cash... so any system brining in more should be quite impressive. If you were to tell me that someone (a customer or car wash owner) reported 200% increase in sales over cash I the system you sold me only did 180% (or hell 125% in the example) instead of that 200% ... I would bit(h about it!

This is aside of the point that the orginal poster asked. But IMHO... and LIMITED EXPERANCE as a very little fish in this pond... CC/bill acceptors in bays are a must (irregardless of the disputed % vs cycle/actual car counts)

MEP... just for fun, when I get time... I will survey the actual count vs cycles and how many actually let the time run out.

[MEP001]

I said that it's based on cycles
You did not.
I don't sell any equipment
I never said you did, however you're advising someone using data that's inaccurate.
I would still venture to say that CC sales out perform cash consistantly at a majority of washes by mre than 100%.
...and you state it again based on your own erroneous data, even after you admit for the second time on this forum that it may be wrong?
so why should I add a disclaimer?
Why shouldn't you? We're both here to be helpful, not to mislead anyone.

[Ben's Car Wash]

MEP.... why you riding me?

Customer: "I'd like to buy some buble gum."

Cashier: "That will be 55 cents"

Customer puts change down, walks away.... see's chips... walks back to counter.

Customer: "how much for the chips"?

Cashier: "75 cents"

Customer pays a second time.


What's the freaking differance? 2 sales cash at 2 separate transactions... same dam customer! I don't care if it's one customer or 2 depositing $2 in my bay! Should I also apply the same logic to the credit card customer who drives off letting the timer tick away... over inflating the CC sales over the guy who hits the STOP button?

It is a BASIS of measuring averages for my own knowledge.. a way most of us view "CYCLES". I don't break down my tunnel sales for people who buy a $9 wash then I sell them a $30 wax in the after care area. Is this one sale B/C it's 1 car totaling $39 or 2 sales averging $19.50@? Same with customers adding tire shine, air freasherners or other services as an after thought.

And disclaimers are added to advertisements for "sales" clarification.

[MEP001]

What's the freaking differance? 2 sales cash at 2 separate transactions... same dam customer!
There is a difference - just because you don't see it or care doesn't mean that it doesn't matter.

If you want to take it as me "riding you," so be it. My whole point is that if someone is trying to decide whether to add credit card acceptance to their self-serve bays, and you come along and tell them that CC customers spend twice as much as cash customers, naturally they'll think "Boy, that's a great reason to add credit card acceptance!" What if they decide on that basis that they should take out a loan to have a $30,000 system installed? Your misinformation has just screwed them.

Just because you aren't selling anything doesn't remove the obligation for you to provide accurate and complete information. As I said, we're both here to be helpful. By correcting your misinformation, I'm helping the original poster. If someone else supplied FUD on the subject, I wouldn't hesitate to correct them too.

[MEP001]

I finally did my own study and watched and counted actual cars washed, and properly divided the cash spent by the number of customers rather than cycles. Going by start-up cycles only, it's 205% more spent by credit card users over cash, but by factoring in the cars, it's only 43% more. Still a good number, but hardly anything magic.

After subtracting all the various credit card fees, it's still 23% more, and with 20% of the gross coming from credit card users it gives the $12,000 improvement we made a pretty good ROI. I'll do some more number crunching to figure out the eventual pay-off, which I suspect we've already passed in two years of in-bay CC acceptance.

The only thing I haven't figured into this study yet is whether anyone reswiped their card on the same car - I'm waiting on the eXact report for the study period, and even one reswipe for every 20 cars would increase the number to 50%. I don't expect any since there have been only 9 in the first full year, and this was a one-week survey.

[bigleo48]

Back to the subject, spot free is a must and Kleenrite has good systems a very competitive prices. IMHO Air-Shamee and Tri Foam gun are options you add after the basics such as presoak, tire cleaner, Clear Coat Sealant, spot-free.

I have the air-shamee and it does ok, but before you commit to it, make sure your service can handle the 30amps/bay when used simultaniously. So 5x30=150amps @ 110VAC!!!

I do not have tri-foam and a number of veteran carwashers on this forum have advised against it as the ROI would be years away based on their usage.

Petwash (and if you are closing a bay you should do at least 2) is also a good idea, but needs attending. ROI on mine was 10 months.

Hope this helps
BigLeo