Tokens

[OntheBlvd]

Hello, Could anyone tell me the Pros & Cons of tokens and were to buy reasonable and the type to buy. I have Laundry Mat near my wash that has no dollar bill changer therefore my changers have become the neighborhood changer we keeps me going to he bank to get quarters constantly. Should I just deal with it or consider tokens.

[pitzerwm]

There are a couple of reasons to go to tokens. One must do and that is to go to tokens in all of your equipment. I also suggest that you also take quarters, and the gold dollar. The main reason that I went was the vandalism, it came to a total stop. I also had 2% a week walk off, (tokens that never came back) I gave $6 for $5, $12.50 for a $10. This was 10 years ago. I had vertically no complaints and the ones that said something, I just explained the vandalism and they agreed. I dispensed only token but took everything. Some people mix quarters, but I didn't.

[brett]

Well since Roger Williams Mint went belly up and Osborne purchased Van Brook the price of tokens has soared. There are two mints that I know of: Osborne and the Hoffman mint. I am happy I went to tokens since it has eliminated vandalism and buglaries. When I switched to tokens in 2003 I was paying $80 per thousand, now I am paying $260 per thousand. That steep price increase has been painful.

Brett

[Keith Baker]

I went to tokens about 2 years ago for mainly the same reason you are talking about, always out of change. If you do this, I would suggest $1.00 tokens to get your customers thinking about dollar increments in pricing. You can also buy a better token if you vend it for a buck. You should still accept quarters.
It was fairly expensive for me to convert all of my equipment to accept tokens.
The most expensive thing for me was buying a Mega vendor and cage. You should convert everything to accept the tokens.
Although I have seen some decrease in vandalism, it did not eliminate attempts by stupid people.
I've had about 2,000 tokens walk off in the last 2 years.
The big advantage I've seen is being able to have promotions during the slow months. I can give away time without permanently lowering my prices.
There is a very thorough article in the fall 2004 issue of the Self Service Car Wash News. Reprints should be available. I think there is a link from this site, if not call 616-949-5618. It would be worth your time to get this article before you start.

Good luck:
Keith

[PaulLovesJamie]

search the old forum archives too, this topic has been discussed quite a bit. (I cant believe nobody else said that!)

[MEP001]

Start by putting up a sign that reads "This changer dispenses a mix tokens and quarters. Tokens are good at this car wash only and are non-refundable." That alone should solve your problems, even if there are no tokens in it. If they eventually learn and start using the changer again, then either mix in some tokens or go to tokens only.

[Waxman]

My wash is fairly new and I started 'from the get' as tokens only in SS bays and vacs. $1 each. MY IBA also accepts tokens as well as cash and credit cards.

I plan to upgrade to CC acceptance in my SS bays soon as I'm able.

I do not regret one bit being tokens only in SS and vacs. I know others feel very strongly about accepting any and all forms of payment for everything. That's fine and they are entitled to their opinion. But a lack of vandalism is a money saver and keeps you running. A lack of bingo players using my changer for quarters keeps me from running to the bank constantly (and for zero income from these folks!). And, on a final note, you can buy a dollar token for far less than a buck and I've yet to find anywhere that offers a roll of quarters for under $10.

[MEP001]

Waxman hit upon some of the advantages to tokens. Another is that when a token "walks off," you've made money since a token costs less than a quarter (or a dollar). I know a few people who mix tokens into their changer, and they make an extra $1,000-2,000 a year from token loss.

The only "cons" to token acceptance is the cost of equipment upgrades to take them, and the time of educating customers to their use if you go all-tokens.

[Waxman]

MEP1,

I alluded to the walkoff benefits at the end, where I talk about cost to buy a quarter vs. cost of a $1 token.


Also, the problems of retrofitting stuff to use tokens as well as training customers is not as bad when you are a new wash. Just order the equipment the way you want it set up. And take time giving away tokens and explaining their use. A great way to promote a new car wash. Better than walking around town handing out quarters!:D

[Red Baron]

I use a 50/50 mix of tokkens and have since I opened 3 years ago. I've been considering eliminating them. It takes extra time to sort them before I make a deposit, and it annoys some of my customers to put a $20 in the ACW, select a $5 wash and get $7.50 back in tokens, especially if they're just passing through. Yeah I know I could use quarters only in the ACW, but that's one more task added.

I'm just not certain it' worth the hassle to me, and some of my customers are dumb enough that I think they'd still break in to a changer if they knew 1/2 the take would be tokens.

[Lisa Lyons]

I've been all tokens for years, security being the main reason, however if security isn't an issue with your wash you might consider dispensing $1 coins. Check with the laundry to make sure they don't take those - that way you are still dispensing "real" money and solving the issue of people coming to your place for quarters.

[BayWatch]

When some of you mention using tokens for "security" reasons, are you more concerned about the vacs, bay safes, or changers?

[MEP001]

Generally vacs and safes, since the changer will end up having bills in it, but it does deter breakins all around.

[Lisa Lyons]

It's stopped breakin attempts in the vacs/bay vaults but the main reason I went to all tokens is 5 Rowe acceptors being salted in one week plus a year of occasional crow bars to the changers. Add that repair up and it's a no brainer.

[BillClinton]

What is "salting" the changer? Is this like stringing?

[MEP001]

They salt it thinking they'll short it out and make it pay, like salting older coke machines would make them vend, but all it does is ruin the validator.

[Dubois Laundry/Carwash]

if security isn't an issue with your wash you might consider dispensing $1 coins. Check with the laundry to make sure they don't take those

If the laundry is so cheapsake / poorly managed that they don't keep a change machine in working order, it is very unlikely they accept dollar coins.

Unlike the competitive price and variety of interchangeable or easily adaptable quarter/dollar/token validators for carwashes, the laundry industry is pretty bleak.

ie carwash: among microcoin, securecoin, multi-tron, imonex(electronic), slugbuster(2or3) etc at least one of them will probably fit your meterbox and activate your equipment for under $100-$250 / bay.

laundry: Set-o-matic only fits and starts a small subset of the washer and dryer makes and models for $200 each at the low end or factory only $200-400 if available at all. For a lot less than the price to retrofit even a rediculously tiny laundromat (a dozen machines), they could get a brand new change machine.

[Red Baron]

Made the decision today to phase out tokens. It was time to order more or phase them out. I intend to stop mixing them into the quarters and figure over 3 months or so just about all will be out of circulation, if the rate at which they walk off is any indication anyway.

[BillClinton]

If they are walking away (and this makes you money), why would you phase them out?

[Max]

I live in Canada and our machines take $1-$2 coins. I am considering to use only tokens and have them worth $1. What are your thoughts?

[Waxman]

1. As long as dollar tokens can be purchased for less than 4 quarters each, they are a good idea.

2. As long as tokens can only be accepted at your wash, coin vaults in bays will remain unvandalized.

3. As long as 1 is less than 4 and 2 is less than 8, it is more convenient for the customer to deposit tokens into any of your machinery.

4. As long as laundry mats do not accept tokens, your changer will only need replenishing when your machinery has swallowed up the tokens from your changer.:D

[Red Baron]

Fortunately, breakins just have not been a problem for me here (looking for something wooden to knock on). Thus, it all comes down to time spent separating quarters from tokens vs. supplying quarters for other businesses. Another complication is that my ACW accepts tokens and customers get annoyed when they pay for a $5 was with a $20 and get 30 tokens in their change, especially if they're just passing thru (they often call me to come and cash in their tokens in that case).

I have factored in that the few people using my change machines for qurters to use at other businesses, are doing so anyway, then they spending the tokens at my car wash later. I don't think I'm creating any new business by forcing them to take some tokens along with their quarters.

I collect and count my quarters every 2 weeks and I figure I spend an extra hour separtating tokens from quarters. That's 24 hours per year that could be better utilized doing something else, at least at my car wash.

It makes me realize how fortunate I am to operate in an area where in the 3-1/2 years I've had this car wash, I've not had a single case of vandalism or breaking attempt (looking for that wood again).

[Doug P.]

Red,
Out of curiosity have you used tokens the entire 3.5 years that you have had no vandalism. How have you been sorting your tokens, manually, a tray, or a machine? I had a location with zero vandalism the first five years it was open and then three punks took a sledge hammer and demolished my entry door and my Hamilton DRS Changer. I built a cage around my changer out of 3/8 steel and switched to dispensing dollar tokens . To the local cops credit they caught them and they did some jail time. They have also paid some restitution for the damage they did after being paroled. I was surprised the system actually seemed to work in this instance.

Doug P.

[Red Baron]

Red,
Out of curiosity have you used tokens the entire 3.5 years that you have had no vandalism. How have you been sorting your tokens, manually, a tray, or a machine? I had a location with zero vandalism the first five years it was open and then three punks took a sledge hammer and demolished my entry door and my Hamilton DRS Changer. I built a cage around my changer out of 3/8 steel and switched to dispensing dollar tokens . To the local cops credit they caught them and they did some jail time. They have also paid some restitution for the damage they did after being paroled. I was surprised the system actually seemed to work in this instance.

Doug P.


Yes I've used the tokens the entire time. I use a Scancoin 303 sorter/counter.

[MEP001]

We use a CS-95A coin counter which we got from an eBay store - we also have a Scancoin 303, which got put on a shelf 3 years ago when we got the CS-95A. The latter sorts by kicking out coins smaller than what you're counting at the time - the drawback is that you have to run your quarters through it twice.

[Kevin Reilly]

We dispense dollar tokens only but all equipment accepts quarters, dollars and dollar tokens. Probably for fifteen or more years primarily because of vandalism.

We have a Brandt sorter that works almost perfect. It sorts the large tokens into the 50 cent bag, quarters in the quarter bag and dollars (we don't get many but it is increasing a little in the past year). This is all done with one action by dumping the bag(s) into the top hopper and it is tractor fed into the sorter. We've had this machine for almost 10 years and I bought a backup unit in case of a breakdown just to be sure and we've never had to use it.

I personally would NOT attempt to go to tokens ONLY unless there is no competition in your town and that usually is rather unlikely.

[BayWatch]

After reading the intial posts I checked on a few competitors to see if they dispense tokens, whick a lot do. In the process, I thought about putting up a sign above my changer because I also have to add quarters to my machines every few weeks due to walk-offs. I put up a sign stating "this machine dispenses a mix of tokens and quarters. Tokens may be used in all bays,vacs and vending". Sure enough after two months, I think I have solved most of my walk-offs. I dont use tokens, but they think I started and since most of my competitors do, they know what they could get.

[MEP001]

I've done the same thing a number of times, and it always worked at least for a while, usually for quite a few years before they caught on.